Burnout Revenge vs Burnout Paradise

you just don't like burnout. Some people have boost in their veins while others will play paradise.

Rofer, just because some don't like Revenge, doesn't mean they are not a burner, other wise you would also apply as a non-burner for not liking Paradise if that was the attitude. Banging the drum is all very well, but the song is getting old, lol.

Though it does seem odd that some people just can't play Revenge, and abuse it with trying to learn how to do the boost bug, does not take much, just time and to do it really well, hanging, with all the people who have the top 100 lap times helps too.

Burnout is all the games, so your statement, "you don't like burnout" is kind of rude, considering you don't play Paradise, and just trying it and writting I don't like it (well you used stronger words than that, lol) don't count, when you compare it against people who do play it, after a 30 hours game play which you did at the begining of the year, though I assume you tried Cagney, you don't like it, cool, and if someone don't like Revenge, Live with it.

Though Revenge is old, played by die hard fans who compete against each other on multiple tags, which can boost numbers of supposed players hunting for that fastest time and highest rank but as far as I'm concered Pure blows both games out of the water and it not really the same type of game.

Paradise took me time to get use to but i do have a lot more fun on that than Revenge now, as doing the same tracks over and over is just not fun anymore, Revenge is far from dead, but it only has so much going for it, while Paradise is still new and has a lot more to do if you get past the open world and look at the smaller parts of the game and play each bit as it comes along. And the chance of me and others getting to number 1 on Revenge, it's not really possible due to the ghost tags out there.

Paradise does even the playing field up, and the issuses the game does have, effect everyone so it's fairly equal for all players, 'cept the glitchers again, but that is a problem with all games anyway, where people abuse an error with in a game to make them sound like gods but are really just gamers, that look for that type of thing to feel good about themselves and put down others because they can't, sort of what I am doing now, lol.

Paradise does take a lot of work, I thought Burnout 3 was hard but i did finish it twice though due to some error with the disk or the xbox I was using could never unlock the Euro, though I have played the tracks through at least half a dozen times, I would not reset my Paradise save because I thought it was hard work, due to the lack of restart, but after the time I have played it, I could do it and get though most of the single player in 2 days no worries. Revenge on the other hand I could do in less than a day minus the Signature takedowns, online and off.

What is the fastest time Revenge has been finish in anyway, anyone know?

I know your a cool dude, but you need stop bashing the Paradise, as more people are now playing that than Revenege, and you can't hate or fight them all, it would just be a waste of your time, considering your supposed to be using your time learning and building Revenge 2.

Get on with it so I can bash it, lol.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

Hi,

    I did not read what you wrote yet, but I will.  Please try not to compare the two (which i do not believe you are, but others are.) Revenge on 360 was bad compared to revenge on the original xbox, better handling.  I know you said that people keep comparing, and I apologize for them.  We all have addictions here and sometimes may not thing with clear reason.  I for one love paradise, and choose Takedown over revenge.  I think that is the hardest burnout since paradise. Revenge is a great game on the original xbox, the 360's handling was poor in my opinion.  the old burnout games were more track driven, hinting at free roaming.  The new game paradise is what the creators invisioned since the beginning.

I hope that helped

Take care.

"The sleep of reason produces monsters" -Goya

I finished burnout 100 percent two times, and I can say that it is a hard game, took me longer on that than it did for me on revenge.  And I had to play it one my modded xbox and on my regular one, long story.  I was pissed at paradise, but now i like it, bc I can choose what I want or dont want to do in it.  I got over the old way of burnout and forced myself into the new.  I dont play it as much but im going for elite rank right now.  Cars make the difference a lot in this game.  Still the pure instinct of a burner holds true in the burnout world as always. trusting that gut.

"The sleep of reason produces monsters" -Goya

Paradise is utter trash at the moment IMO. I gave the game more of a chance than most of my Revenge friends, but the truth is unavoidable - Paradise is simply a flawed game, if not for the same reasons Rofer and the other Paradise "haters" dislike it.

Here's why Paradise sucks:

(1) The takedowns are a complete JOKE. There's a "delay" between players which means that on your opponent's screen, YOUR car is actually a few car lengths behind where it SHOULD be on your screen (and vice versa). Totally ridiculous - what's the point of a takedown-based game when the takedowns don't even work? The result of this distance delay is that slamming another driver will never net you a takedown, since on HIS screen you're a car length behind him and actually not slamming his car. Your opponent doesn't even feel the impact! In the same way, if you swerve about a car length in front of someone (without even touching his car), you get a takedown, because on HIS screen you were next to him and slammed him into the wall. How did Criterion not pick up this issue in testing? It's so bad in Paradise it's not even funny.

(2) The traffic lags. I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for this. It's simply not fun hitting a pickup truck that lagged backwards into from the sidewalk. And it happens every couple races too.

(3) The wrecking system sucks. For some reason, when you hit someone's wreck in Paradise, even if they've been dead on the ground for 5 seconds, you have to wait the ENTIRE 5 second crash animation - meaning they spawn way before you do. Whatever happened to the wrecking systems in B3 and Revenge, where you'd get spawned along with your opponent? At least that way you had a chance of taking your opponent down if they crashed in the middle of a narrow shortcut and screwed you over.

(4) The tracks are currently way too short. There are definitely some good ones, but Spaghetti Western, Baseball Battle, Avant Guard, etc. are too short for the guy in last to catch up after a bullshit takedown/crash. Hopefully this gets fixed in the future.

(5) The ranking system STILL doesn't work. People are still able to leave the room if they don't want to race you, or pick-and-choose opponents that they think will be easy to beat. How about a forced matchmaking system, Criterion? That would solve all of our problems.

But your points are very true, but then again I don't rank race and thats what people wanted coming from Revenge, why don't I rank race because of your points, but the other stuff in the game is good fun, challenges etc, but then people have glitched them too, but most people can tell that, just by looking at the leader boards, lol.

So have you now stop playing it Frozen, because you were one of the stongest from Revenge that did like the game?

But then again most people have cheap connections and this game needs more than that, and still Voip has issuses even now, but thank goodness, some people from Burnoutaholics played with a Burnout team member, and 'did not hear it' for himself and he is looking into it, which is a good thing.

No one wants to make a bum game, but they do get out there. I don't think its a bum game, but then again I did not like it when it first came out anyway, and still feel the concerns that i brought up when it first came out still hold true, but the Cagney update did address some of my problems with it.

Paradise in single player is a fun game, true not restart, but that would go against the rule of any loading, and Criterion have stuck to their guns about that. Plus no restart, means you learn more of the map, which is the game really.

You know I think I have been repeating my self just as much as Rofer, so maybe I will stop.

Or maybe not, lol.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

Nah, I still play Paradise man, it's still good fun. Marked man and stunt run online are addictive.

It's not the rankings I really care about, though. Revenge's ranking system sucked, but it was still a great game. Paradise, on the other hand, is totally broken. The distance delay between players and the ultra-sensitive takedowns are just inexcusable, and I expected better. Nothing to do with players' connections either. Doesn't matter who's racing who; everyone still has the same problems. Invisible takedowns out of nowhere, getting slammed by someone who didn't even see you, etc. Makes road rage and marked man a lot less fun and completely kills the racing.

And the voice chat issues still haven't been resolved.

Think that revenge is a fun game but paradise can't even compare to the fun i have had on revenge. I don't understand why it matters if the game is "broken" or isn't fair because the truth is that from the beginning it just is not as fun as burnout should be, and fun and excitement are what video games are for thats what burnout is for.  I just think of it all as a really horrible joke that criterion decided to throw together to piss off hteir old fans, keep a couple old fans, and make alot more different fans..

But when I use to play Burnout 3 Takedown, a lot of people use complain about being locked on the blue team for road rage, or people could not boost start, as they were noobs and I think they complained to Criterion, and I think Criterion must have read some of those complaints and changed stuff to make it easy for people to play their game. Revenge is an example of this, the Road Rage changed to swap teams though they forgot about the car choice for when you changed, doh!

Revenge was one of the simplest games of the series, you played the single player, learned the tracks and then when you were good enough jumped online as it were, plus they unlocked all the cars for online play, though not on the Original Xbox. Takedowns were poor compared to 3 but it looked pretty good and the racing was great. As well as the crashing, though I think people said that 3 crashing was not good enough for them or too hard and Revenge crashing came, with that golf meter, some people miss that too. A lot of crasher miss the Burnout 3 crash mode.

But again I think people complained so Criterion with an agaenda that anyone should be able to play our game, and lets get rid of as many loading times as possible as it's next gen etc.

The things that noobs found hard in the other games seemed to be slowly removed over the time the games came out, that in the end we got Paradise.

With Bikes I can now weave through traffic, which I wanted the cars to do like in 3 and Revenge.

Do I think Criterion was influenece by complainers, maybe, it's possible, but I doubt it.

Sometimes, people just want to start fresh, Paradise is definitly that, and may if they do another one, it will be the best of the lot, because maybe the influence of it's players old and new, but then they just might make a Train game instead.

I get a kick out most of the games, they brought out, they have good production values and they do push boundries (is that spelt right?) but they also made sure that all their games are still playable today after 7 years, not many gaming house do that. So at least we can still play 3 or Revenge, when ever we want 'cept Tuesdays, lol, due to maintainence, and all other game do this every Tuesday, right? What more can you get, without being in the Criterion studios.

People are asking what happens after the Year of Paradise, when the year is up, we will know, and by that time most if not all the controllable bugs will have be sorted, which is more than can be said of some gaming companies.

Yes, it is a marketing tool, but they are trying and from scratch too, which without a shed load of cash, like Rockstar or Bungie, they had to start somewhere and they are making it work, problem is people are not going to be happy no mater what they do, accept everything after Cagney as a gift and enjoy it, if it's not for you, saddly you got to stick with what you got or move on and find something else to play.

I think a lot of people are not keen on Paradise (minus the issues that Frozen and others have brought up other than it's shyte/it's crap etc) because it's a new game and they may not be the star performer anymore. There are Burnout Gods out there for each of the games, because they put time and effort into being the best, most of us want to be that good or better. Effort verses reward. And truth be told if you can't play Paradise, Burnout 6 (if there is one) may not be the game for you because it may be a rendition of Paradise and none of the other games. For some of you Revenge maybe as good as it gets, sad I know, but if you don't try to be the best at every game you play you may not be able to play the next one to come out even if it's not the cup of beverage of your choice.

Me I try to play most games, and try to be good at them, but if i'm not, I play something else that maybe good at.

You know I know some people who just bought a 360 for Arcade games, they don't like the next gen of games, some only bought it to play just one game. What a waste IMO but horses for courses as the saying goes.

Me I want a game that has all the games built in, from driving, running and gunning, and a bit of sport on the side, and a RPG too. It's going to happen and when it does I'll buy it, but 10 minutes in, in my eyes it is just not the game I want to play, and in that case I will take it back and get another to try.

In this day and age what we gamers have, is choice, and there is a lot of choices across the board.

I did have a word with Xandu and he was against this because he believes in community and a common love for a series of games and it's creators, to seperate the games into sub pages, so people who love Revenge etc could just click once away from the front page and be in their favorite game zone, so they don't have to see something they don't like and don't have to comment about. I don't think it should happen because then it would be like the Xbox forums where the true fans seem to scare new fans away with the over zealousness, not saying it's that bad, but I don't really like to go there, because of some of the stuff over there.

Rofer is that the longest comment you have written on this site? And you are still a fan of Revenge so not much has changed, you still get to play it, true it is getting a wee bit stale after 3 years, but you can still play it. Not many games get that sort of love from player and creator(they still let you play, lol). I mean there is probably 20 games out there that have been played non-stop since it came out, though some need an upgrade like Mario etc, but people still play Halo 2, and a lot still Lan Halo.

Me I accept that I need to play some thing new to appreciate what I loved in the past, for me Pure is gooing to be the game that I will want to play and be good at, after I saw numpty play thedemo I'm going to have to work at to beat him, and he hates Paradise with a Passion, probably because I and some others tried to get him to like Paradise, but to him its all to much hard work, but I do miss him, and Pure is one other games I be able to compete against him for fun and frollics (is it 1 L? I forgot to bring my dictionary), but knowing my luck it will be laggy as hell and be rubbish online and of course will I see my 360 again to try it?

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I went back to Paradise for awhile, it's not a bad game by any means... but I really do wish they would fix the takedowns. It's no secret that I like them. To me there is no better feeling that gaming can give you when putting someone like Vapor or Rofer into a wall, it just pisses me off on Paradise when i'm driving full force into someone for nothing to happen. It's one of the main things that matter to me in a Burnout game and it's pretty sad that they have not been fixed.

Another thing aswell... for an open world game, Paradise City feels kind of...cramped. They may be adding bits to it... but I still think the city will still be pretty small by the time they are done with all the updates. Midnight Club 3 offered a similar a similar free roaming experience on the old Xbox and that had 3 citys, each of them all bigger than Paradise. 

Back when Burnout 3 was in it's prime, I played both that and Midnight Club 3 and they were both pretty different racing experiences. Now that Paradise is already out it I can't help but feel that it's pretty much entered Midnight Club territory with it's free roaming style... and I can pretty much see Midnight Club 4 pissing all over it. (IMO) there was still alot that could have been done with Burnout in it's original track racing format... I mean Polyphony are still making Gran Turismo and that has been pretty much the same shit with every incarnation that comes out...  but the fans still love it. Ridge Racer is another example of a game that has stayed the same and is also still loved by its fans.

Oh... and bikes have been in Midnight Club since the second game in the series.  http://www.rockstargames.com/midnightclubLA/videos/?id=9

Wow, long reply SUFFUR... I guess that's the way your posts usually are, though... lol...

A few things.

- I disagree that Revenge's takedowns were poor compared to Burnout 3. They did take some getting used to, but I think once everyone learned how the system worked, it was actually a lot of fun have to be really cautious about avoiding other drivers and slamming only when it was safe. Good stuff IMO.

- I liked Paradise from the first time I started a race online. I suppose Rofer was looking for something different in a Burnout game, but I was happy with what I got. 

- I think most of the "top" racers on Paradise who I used to play the game with on a daily basis never experienced Burnout 3 or Revenge in their prime, and so they don't realize how much better Paradise really could've been. For them, Paradise is the only way they've played Burnout, and so they're willing to ignore its stupid flaws - it's still Burnout, and it's the best they've got. I still play Paradise a little bit every couple days or so, but it just pisses me off too much for it to be fun. Why play a game where you randomly get taken down at the beginning of the race when you can play Revenge?

WTF... you know for a fact that what you really miss in Paradise is the traffic checking. I swear, you get more enjoyment out of checking a car into a shortcut opening and watching me wreck into it than anything else.

I would like to traffic check traffic off of ramps and watch them fall to their deaths off the side of a mountain lol

"The sleep of reason produces monsters" -Goya

Yeah I get you about Revenge TD's but 3 you could really slam some people and they live  or the other way round which is aways good and it did not seem so cheap, maybe once again lag issues for easy TD on Revenge, because I have battled people on Revenge in Road Rage and it alway comes as a surprize.

You had to earn your TDs's on 3, and some people like MonkeyCMonkeyDo, just owned because they knew after a TD you had invincablity(sp) if they just hit people just right. Revenge you could just traf in their general direction and a TD was had.

In Paradise you can't get multiple TD's or Psyc-out's, if they do exsist i haven't got one yet. I think that maybe the problem with Paradise, the takedowns are not really working, you hit someone and both drivers seem to lose control, and crash, also some TD's come up as a crash rather than a TD. With thier new engine, stuff is just not the same as the other games, not say it's bad or good, but if it was good for the past why change it. People still think that 3 is the best for TD's,  for me 2 was great for racing, and Revenge improved on it but lost the famous battles we had from 3.

And yes a good portion of players on Paradise are new to the game, so don't know what we had, and some have tried and failed when they went old school, because it is so different playing Paradise.

I like Paradise for a lot of things, and it's a shame alot of players from Revenge did not stick with, but then again a good number of Burnout 3 players did not like Revenge.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

Revenge traffic checking; some people hated, some loved it. In Paradise I think it needs a bit of tweeking, when you hit the traffic side on you bounce away so fast and crash into another car, almost like the wheel lock like with TD's. I think the traffic should give, it should bounce away as it were but not like Revenge where it flys away, but some sort of shove to the next lane and if everyone knows that and was consistant people could then use the tailgating boost more often. In truth we should avoid it right, faster times more boost from near misses etc. But traffic should be used to foul other racers but not phantom traffic but due to the inconsistancy we can't see or know what is really around us so we drive wide, pavement drive, take short cuts to avoid stuff that could be there, but might not be or the other way round.

For all the games before Paradise I use to just follow the white lines down the road, and get a load of near misses even with the Euro which was very wide, but could squeeze through, I can't do that with Paradise excewpt with the Roadster or other smaller cars.

When I race/challenges (like the timed ones when you race up to do the dam rolls or flatties) or chase people, the traffic seems to be flying in other peoples wake, like they see the racer and start to crash as it were to foul up the people behind, which is fine, but when I am in the lead and look back my cars are normal or I have gone no where near them but to other people they seem to be fly about to cause them to crash. It seems inconsistent, which was part of your issues Frozen you stated before, lag, people are there but not etc etc. Is it because we now host the room not a server like 3 or was that the same, I can't remember.

Also some people see car/traffic while i don't or that was a car for me but a truck for others, the buses can be cars too sometimes, I think with the bike pack, the host has the night and day cycle so maybe it should be host traffic too, I know they sync it up, but people in my room still see different traffic to me.

And with the release of Cagney I though Criterion were able to change stuff on the fly, and test out new ideas with the community, could they bring back traffic checking to see if it would make the game play better if you know what i mean. Or a version of it?

I was playing a game where someone was in the Olympus and checking away as it were, so I did a little test and told them what cars I had and see them check them away, and then they crashed into a bus, which for me was a car, though they should have seen a bus right? Since it was in front of them, lol.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

lol... IMO it just doesn't get any better than a good drawn-out swiping battle on Revenge. If you're battling someone who knows how to defend themselves (*cough*notrofer*cough*) then it's really fun trying to take them down - and usually someone ends up dead. Burnout 3's system was just as good, maybe even a bit better, but the battles in Revenge are just so frickin' crazy...

In any case, I'd be happy if Criterion could even just bring Paradise's takedowns up to even half the level of awesomeness found in the old games... unfortunately, though, I don't see that happening.

Criterion were trying to take out the competativeness, listen to Matt on the lastest Podcast, I think they want to have a game that anyone can play, with out having to be the best, but that seems to go against the grain in a racing game, so they made the game for dicking about, which is ok but all the other games where about winning, why change that formula?

Or improve match making so noobs/new players don't end up in a hosted game where they will be left as a smear on the road.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I was online doing some races, challenges and freeburn games with kevlardo and 6 other people last night. Only thing I can say is that takedowns don't really work at all in Paradise City. You're 2-3 car lengths away from someone and you get a takedown... Head on collision and nothing happens... except for a crash if you are lucky. I do appreciate that latency is a problem but it must be possible to do better than this? Takedowns were pretty much perfect in Burnout 3. Maybe it would be a good idea for the Burnout Team and go back and actually try and play this game to get an idea about how takedowns should be. 

I think Criterion's next update should be the "Takedowns Pack". Please give us takedowns that work!

-- The Creator --

I still think Revenge is a way better game than Paradise..

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

What you spent most of your time on, like me I spent most of my time on Burnout 2, so I like it most in single player and Burnout 3 for Online for time spent.

Revenge was a natural progression for me as a Long time player of the series, now Revenge is old I have moved on to Paradise, not the best  to follow on for racing and raging/crashing but still part of the series and next gen too.

But did you not say that Revenge was your first Burnout game? I know you have given the the others ago, but if there was no Revenge and Paradise per say what Burnout would you be playing? Would they have given you enough notice to play?

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I would play B3 and probably dabble on 2 as I have them both. But then again SC4 interests me a lot more than Revenge.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

Incognito actually has the smartest reply because i see more truth in his post than i do in any other post in this thread (besides mine of course) What is the point even talking about it when IT IS SO OBVIOUS WHICH GAME IS SUPERIOR TO THE OTHER. If you really have to even think about which game is more fun than you are very lost from the beginning. If you can't even understand why people don't like it as much as revenge then you are even more lost. All of you people promoting paradise is the only thing keeping it alive. I need your help you guys we all need to work together if we want to effectively kill paradise.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

Oops I pooped my self!

Rofer you could have easly written that too, and it would have been the right length for you too!

I have just seen a Shell advert which has a Ferrari racing from the earliest car to present day on different tracks across the world, which was put together with very interesting editing,  it looked cool!

Oh and it's not really a reply, it's just a preference, which  is what this whole thread was about right, well for you anyway, me I can play'em all so I'm happy to have 5 games to play not just one, they all have their good and bad points, maybe one day we will get the best of them all in one game, one day, but I doubt it?

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I will say that I didnt give Paradise enough time to really enjoy it or like it, but thats because after 56-70 hours of jumping for billboards, hitting the y button for braking, and doing those stunts, it got completely Boring!

Eezo tried to get me into the game, we did a couple of races and stuff like that but still I didnt fiind anything worth mastering that actually took skill. Boost jumping, although it may be a glitch or not in Revenge takes skill to do and you can see it because of the speeds people get. There wasnt any special challenge that could otherwise make me pre-occupied with playing the game. I dont like the Road Rages as Ive always looked at crashing at a gimmick just to get players who fail at driving to buy the game.

The point is, I dont like Paradise. It is quality trash as I like to call it. Even with the new DLCs, I feel they are just trying to prolong what is otherwise a disaster made. Bikes? Airplanes? No Boost? Bikes that dont crash? Seems like just a waste of your credits. And guess what, those people who really lliked Paradise in the beginning? Where are they now? As far as I know, they havent been posting in the forums but yet after three years, we still have tournaments in Revenge not only hosted by me but by several other people as well? Hmmm..

Heres what I think... Paradise is garbage. Its is a completely stupid addition to the series. And if you think Im in a sitting in a high horse right now and because I stick to Revenge because Im good at it and dont want to lose? Guess what.. Losing doesnt bother me. I lose all the time at Revenge, in SC4, in COD4..ect.. I dont play it because, I dont enjoy it. It doesnt look and feel like previous Burnout Games. Whats his face said that before, but personally I dont care cause he just took Burnout to a direction from which a ton of their previous fans feel left out, lost, and utterly disappointed by the mess they have created. Being a disgruntled fan, why would I care what he does nowadays, he already lost a lot of credibility from other fans other than myself. I do however admire Revenge, B3, and B2.

What does bother me is this.. having played B2, B3, Revenge, I cant help but notice that Paradise turned into just another generic racing game with their weather modes, bikes, planes, free roam, ect. Generic......Pathetically generic...

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

Walking simulation game, I like to do that as a hobby too, so it could be interesting, and then after some walking, enter a walking race, it could have loads of options, like what type of shoes if any, favorite walks across the world, Olympic events, it would be massive, and since you don't need to worry about 60FPS, it might not be that hard to make or will it? And you could have a robot to show you how to really walk properly.

If might even show you how to walk through a door without it hitting you in the ass as you leave to play Revenge for the 2nd thousandth hour, lol. Revenge Lover, you so love it, you want to marry it, and have Revenge Babies, that will grow up on the game and beat everyones times and have 100 tags each so no-one will have a top time, lol. And all the top 100 times will all be the same time for each track with the tag 'Rofer is my Dad' for one tag and 'When will they make Revenge 2'  for the other for the number 1/2 times. All the others will be variations of I love Rofer and Nito taught me everything, and Burnout Masters V1 etc etc. Maybe a couple saying Paradise Sux and other variations, I could think up more but it would get too long and people would be bored with me again!

And I finally spelt your name right.  And you never said a thing, I'm hurt, can you tell, lol.

I now shall walk away, and await the last word from somebody with a Tag that can kick my ass on Revenge, lol.

Be well everyone! And just keep playing your favorite games, because that is what it is all about, right? 

How many times can you spin a Revenge disk on your kcoc? Sorry I said that to Shaggy about Paradise, we all have our little fetishies (is that right?). It's just a shame that it fits, and the reason why you play Revenge so much! Now that was nasty, I could get moderated again, but as long as you know my tongue is in my cheek and I bit it, should make everyone feel better.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out? Bing bong!

Your anecdotes are confusing at times.. Since you seem to write about stuff that is in no way or partially or somewhat related to the game and it makes your points seem confusing and hazy.

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"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

I  Burnout! and wont take sides, although I prefer the night time of Burnout and the weather effects of Burnout 2 then what I have seen of their equivalents in Paradise. All the games in the Burnout series have their strong points, and weak points. Love them for what they are good at and we will all have FUN playing!

This post has been edited to remove all traces of offence I may have caused unintentionally.

Your's and other tournaments, 50/60 or less, more, and some people will not race unless someone is good enough, example Dog will not really want to race unless he has Frozen to fight against, you guys have become sort of elitistish, not saying your races are locked and anyone could join but those who race seem to be the only important people that matter on Revenge, and have the best times and decent ranks at one time or another.You gotta have some skill and be able to use the bug to compete right?

I'm glad people are keeping the game alive, but that sort of thing should have happen 3 years ago, when it was worth the effort to do so. And you would have had a better spread of racers rather than the forum few.

Your races are really for the die hards who want to be noticed by someone so they bring out another game you guys can have fun on, than accept that could be it for Revenge, I know Paradise is not great but that's all we got unless we have to put up with going back in history playing a game that for a lot of people has been raced to death, by 70,000 people and they went on to other things 2 years ago.

And this is a debate not a flame war, with a flame war you need more swearing and POW on a random tag, lol, and people not agreeing with you. And I agree with you but I do find it fun to put up another side of the coin.

Love you Nito and Rofer, but it's been months since some wrote some thing on this site and it should not be down to just me and a couple of others to get a ball bouncing and rolling.

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

It's a death sentence here for that type of thinking, truth be told, i'm having fun and I don't think I'm hurting anyone, I just like games and Paradise is a game, and it's not Revenge, and people still want to moan about it, cool but know that I will defend it and all the games of the series because it's some thing to do, plus I can play them all well, not god like mind but enough to be better opinionated about them, I have a minimum of 500 hours on each game to cover the bases, though Paradise did say I only done 300, and i'm sure that is wrong.

And Nito it was not about you winning, just that you dedicated time to get good/masterful, but we can all kcuf up during a race, just some people think it's the end of the world when they do, and no not you or Rofer, I love you guys for your dedication, you might even break some records and become record breakers and play a trumpet. 

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I lied about 500 hours on each game, I only did 18 hours on Burnout, you know the first one, sort of like Paradise is the first one of this generation. So maybe see you Revengers in a year or so when Paradise 2 comes out, lol.

Why dont you join Suffur, its fun as heck competing in those races...

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

I'm in another country, W/O an eggbox or decent connection, maybe when I visit the Tigers in Hong Kong I might get a chance to play. Though I don't expect to be any good but it does sound funnish? But tournaments are really not (edit doh)my sort of thing, I prefer to just try and chase you for fun, lol. You do know you are very good, same with Rofer?

Plus I maybe gone for at least 3 months?

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

Is it cause we race the same people over and over again? As for Dogg, we'll thats just Dogg but he means well and he's just looking for a challenge. As for Rofer, well he's just a cat so his reflexes and sickeningly quick...

My tournaments are open for everybody. My first tournament was aimed at only certain people, but I think I have lessened my constraints and the second tournament shows that. This also goes for the third tournament and its open for everyone who wants to enter. It doesnt matter anyways cause many players will be weeded out in the process leaving competition to be much more tougher during the quarterfinals and the toughest in the finals. The thing is now, players will race for spots 1-18 to see where they got placed overall.

I dont think Im elitist, but it doesnt matter cause everyone will always have an opinion of someone else. I mean I think your a little too hazy for me, Eezo is a bad cook, and Zombs is super reliable..

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"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

I know im a little late commenting in here but i have to have my say.....but wtf are you all really arguing about?...which is better?....Paradise or Revenge?....amazing isnt it what gets all you guys posting in here its been an absolute deadzone over the last few weeks except for me..zombs...xandu and suffur....so where have you all been?....obviously by the posts not too many of you have been on Paradise..lol...me personally i really have nothing to say regarding Paradise i dont like it i never will and thats that.....ive learnt over the last few weeks that people do prefer Paradise to Revenge and thats there preference theres no point coming in here or anywhere else trying to alter that fact because you cant...you can sit here till your bright blue in the face shouting revenge is the best but if people dont see it that way then theres very little you can do about it....i think personally revenge has died theres so much drama going on and people wont race these people or whatever and tbh its ruined the game for a lot of people...it takes a community to make a game good but it takes the minority to ruin the game...i race every night and i have to say there are still loads of great racers out there ok they might not be your Dogs or your Rofers or your Waterballs but they are good racers who are also a good laugh i think alot of people tend to stick to there own little group and it ruins the game....i have been following a thread over on xbox.com regarding this matter of which is the best and its interesting to see how peoples views change over the posts....i also know that alot of people on Paradise have never played Revenge so they couldnt compare the both but after playing the demo almost all of them wanted to purchase the game...saying that it gave them the adrenalin and competiveness that Paradise didnt...but they wouldnt exchange Paradise simply because they were intrigued as to what was going to be available for it next....like nito said though boostless cars,uncrashable bikes,shady takedowns,bikes, areoplanes,viva pinatas,etc etc..... is this really going to make the game any better.....maybe if they listened to the views of the people theyd try introducing simple things like tougher takedowns..better ranked rooms..SPEEDOMETER...etc etc.....who knows maybe it might get a better response but i think this question of which is actually better will go unanswered forever because its not down to the fact of the game its down to the views and opinions of ourselves....

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

..................SIGNED.

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

So your tournaments are open for EVERYBODY?........i think you may need to rephrase that comment....

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

you say we need to stick together to do this right?......then why arent you guys ever on here writing blogs and airing your views?.....im sorry i love all of you and i think your all great but c'mon you all only post in here when you want to or if you think theres a chance of a flamewar.....ive been sat here for weeks trying to get people to comment more about revenge maybe post more F&Q and change the poll but when i needed the support of fellow revengers you where all no where to be seen.....so when exactly do you all become Burnoutaholics?....or are you only ones when your playing the game?.....i dont know if you noticed but there are alot more F&Q and alot more polls relating to Revenge im wondering now how many of you actually voted or commented?.....i mean where are all these wicked videos?.....you see them getting posted on You Tube all the time why not on here?.....were not promoting the game very well are we?....thats why everything in here is Paradise orientated because thats what the majority of the site are playing....but if they seen more exciting stuff happening in Revenge maybe wed have more better racers joining.....And nito we spoke so much about doing a featured article and then not a word....i have it all written out the lot.....maybe i should just go on ahead and do it without you?....but thats what im saying it has to work more from us if we dont promote it we wont sell it.....

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

You could never please everybody. But I have been inviting some people and so far no ones answered yet. I will be honest and say I would prefer a fast room, full of fast racers above anything else, but it is open to everybody who so chooses to enter. My first tourney wasnt tho... Why dont you enter? Youre fast enough to be in it...

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

All work and No play makes me crave for some forum posting and thread creations. Yeah the reason why we havent been around or at least I havent been around is quite simply work. I have to work M-F wake up at 5 am and dont get off until 3:30pm. Yeah, its like that Psych, by the time I get home.. Im too tired too even get online and do some stuff...Just to let you know how exhausted I was, I slept on Wednesday night at 8pm and didnt wake up until 6 am..

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

Sorry I have been busy with work lately. I think I will have some time this week to work on this article now or atleast collaborate with you.. Do you have Windows Messenger, I would be more than happy to discuss it with you...

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

It's what I would prefer to play, Revenge is old, I said all this below, or above since some people can't seem to keep some sort of order with their posts, lol. I'm not done with Revenge or even the others, but due to save locking to console, I have to play the others all over again for the 7th time, and that takes time, time I would rather spend else where, like with what I want to play and what my friends list is doing.

Psyc, it's all just game, even posting is a game, as you well know with some people's posts on the egg box forums and definetly with my blogs and comments on this site. Next people will debate which is a better place to write stuff, lol.

Me I prefer to post here because it's my home, I know the rules and when to break them, plus I like supporting Xan and Zom. If people want to write about Revenge they are going to have to do it, I'll comment and if someone writes something that will open my mind up about it I might even write a big'en.

With Nito he see me as a haze, fair do's but then his sig is just some religious psyco babble to me , lol, as though he is the priest of Revenge or gaming, lol.   U Nito!

This site is for all Burnout players, because Paradise is the flavour of the moment it gets talked about the most, most of the early adopters to this site, have written about the previous games, but people mostly write about what they are doing right now, i'm away so I'm wrtting about where I am, not that did much this week end, as I slipped in the bath so my back is hurting, so I jumped on the debate about what we are talking about now for something to do, plus I send messages to people on Live and I get ignored, sdratsab, not even a Hi mate, unlike Mrs T who MSN Mobiles me at least, and shes in Hong Kong, hence why I want to see her in a couple of weeks and MR T of course.

They are all great games from peoples points of views or bad. And Nito is doing a great job keeping it alive with the tourneys, but Criterion are not that bothered, they are busy trying to get Paradise to work even better, all the others (games) have been done and they have moved on, the only way to get more from Revenge is to pay for it, like buy the license, and the tech that goes with it, then pay someone to do the additional tracks that people want. I am surprized EA has not jumped on it because a downloadable pack could have a £25 price tag and at least 10,000 people will probably buy it, but then again there are better games to play now, since it is 3 years old, hey EA have the figures maybe not that many people play any more, just the number of complainers which is around maybe a 1000, and that might not make it cost viable? We sure as hell don't know, we are players and don't have that sort of information though going by Ranking numbers more ranks on Revenge than Paradise, going by my friends list anyway.

And Nito your comment about Elitism, I said Elitismish, true bad spelling, but who is getting hazy now? And Psyc even made a comment too. It's always about the top people, you have a top 18, Revenge is always talked about the top 10 lap times, the best are in the top 100, as there are so many multi/ghost tags, people have abused the system, why should people play it if there is no way to really get to number 1, any where on the game, same goes for Burnout's 1, 2 and 3.

Hence what I was said before, look down below, Criterion were fed up, more like Alex was, people were doing anything to become number 1 whatever way possible. So they made a game and included rescritions, like resets etc, so every one could have a fair chance to play, they want a fun game, and a freedom to do it waht way they can, without people moaning and groaning about people taking it to far, it's supposed to be a fun game, a GAME, and thats not my way to play, I want to be the best too, but not by alienating everyone to do it. And I am not accusing anyone from this site either, but then again there a few here that do have multi tags, and most for the reason of diluting the leader boards or just to steal rank, sad, but then again I have two tags for same reason how far can I get in the shortest space of time with a - tag and against people I know and don't know. In truth most of the best players of Revenge, are the ones that killed it, by tainting it, with glitching times, multi tags, kicking noobs, doing 1 on 1's to get lap times that most people can't be bothered to beat, instead of playing the game with the community which is bigger than 75,000 gamers.

I play Paradise to support Criterion, they went in a different direction to what I thought they were going but then at least they are still there, there are so many games that have died even before they got to the shop floor. You don't like paradise fair dos, you stated your case to Criterion via this site or at theirs, well some of you did, most just threw abuse and NOT REVENGE, and beat your clubs on the floor, some just stayed on Revenge to show your protest which is one of the best ways.

I think because the engine that is Paradsie is so different due to it's 'engine' and it's creators imagination, I'm not even sure Criterion are sure what it can do, so they experiment, bike, planes etc. They made a game that was for fun, for them and their players,  for 'Dicking around in' the die hard Revengers don't want to join, fair enough, but thats is all your going to get, Criterion have said that, they aren't deaf, well Alex said that and he owns it so what can you do? I said my stuff, and strangely enough some of it's in the game, not because of me but because it was part of the agenda, that no one but Alex and his team at Criterion know.

Most Revengers say if it don't have boost jumping I don't want to know, a bug has kept the game alive, and true to master the bug makes you the best in a sense to your peers, but Criterion aren't going to support that, what would happen if they did bring out new tracks but fixed that glitch/bug, there would be a riot and you would all stop playing it, though most of you would have bought the pack, cha-ching for Criterion as loads of you would have downloaded it before you knew what happened, lol.

And Psyc is right, not one of you has really bothered to support Revenge with articals or videos, and Xandu went to a lot of trouble so you could do that, but instead you cry about the motto at the top of the page or try to start a flame war against Paradise. You are a stubborn lot, but also very lazy about putting all your adventures onto the page, damn some you could do commentary to your videos, but no most of you rip some music and say hey look at me aren't I cool, because i can travel faster then anyone and beat everyone. Though that Lone Peak one is awesome.

The best person I know for videos was Fnord, true they were for Burnout 3, and I think his efforts are saving that game from getting sunseted so far. What are you Revengers going to do and in a postive way to save Revenge?

Shall I get the tissues for your issues or are you going to get down to it and start writtng and showing people what is great about Revenge, because there are over 700,000 players on Paradise on two systems that are kicking your ass, by telling everyone what fun they are having.

For Revenge on this site you got Psyc, and the creators, thats gnikcuf it, so pull your fingers out, make it interesting, and maybe your save your holy boost bugged game?

PS I like Revenge as stated so don't go jumping on my back about this, jump on each others, you each have a story to tell, so just do it, and don't rush it with bad spelling like I do, care about just as much as you care about the game. And it's not a competion, against Paradise players, they just decided to do some selling by writting about before you lot did, so do it and become a part of the community instead of against, like you have been doing. And if it's negative, state why rather than WAAAAAAAHHH, it's parc. And don't turn this into the Criterion Forums either because you will be hunted down and run over, but by people that can own you but have not been bothered before as it's been really quiet, but you wake them up you'll know about.

And this is me being on my best behavior, considering I have taken offence ( and the garden gate, the lawn and the pond in it with the fishing gnome too, a lawn mower and a rake, maybe the garden hose) ,  to the Hazy comments lately, you too Zom, I don't need that sort of thing getting around. I'm just Dyslexic and a bit lazy, but I do care what I write about, it might not make sense to some you, but then again you only just got here, so what the kcuf do you know, well Zombie does, but the rest don't!

Plus I might start selling WOW gold to you, by going door to door with my little suit case, you know the one that you could sell kitchen knives from.

Sorry I am Tired it's late, and I let it all get away from me.

I work hard for this site trying to make it fair for the community working with the creators (true not written much in the last couple of months), but when something is done for everyones benefit, no-one uses it. This site is one of the most open sites out there unless your trying to hack it to sell something, like with WOW GOLD, and I hate those people, people should play a game how it supposed to played and not cheat. Oh unless it G18, then it's just fun or host advantage, which you can get round if you spend the cash to get it, like I did, and didn't that take a while, but i'm happy now about, lol. Though still not sure if it was worth it yet?

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out? Awoogga! Ding Ding Ding!

Thats a very big reason i hate paradise is because they took out all of the competitiveness and that is one of the best parts about burnout is pushing your skills to the very limit of your mind to try to become the best burner possible. Thats what burnout should be all about but now its just for wussies. "Everybodys a winner yayyy"

 who is it your talking to?.....im confused.........easy thing to do....lol

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

 oh that lovely word that springs to my mind......SCRUBBBBBBBB......

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

.......im in heaven.......you know i  reading your posts i know nito thinks your a haze but that could be because he doesnt understand the way you interpret yourself.....i love reading your posts i especially loved the way you went from talking about revenge to slipping in the bath.....ouch hope you didnt hurt yourself too much..... but anyway some good points in there along the way......

....The only way to have a true friend...Is to be one....

But you now have the choice of what you want to be competative about or not (some people just drive about, some look for place to park, lol or glitch, a freedom that people frown upon in the other games), ShowTime (i see no point due to the 10 billion scores so I don't lol), Challenges which I'm good at, sadly not ranked racing due to the lag and sync issues, which people from the other games is important, I was hoping for me too, but since it don't work, I work on the timed road rules and the challenges and sometimes stunt run. Marked Man and Road rage are fun too as long as the host knows what s/he is doing.

It's not Revenge so you can't play it the same way, it's like comparing Halo to Rainbow 6 Vegas or COD4, or SC4 and Street Fighter 4 . Completely different type of game play. So new type of rules apply. 

Patience is something I taught myself, so I never know when it's going to run out?

I'm sorry, Paradise is a good game, but I can't be bothered to play it regularly in its current state. I'm not looking for Revenge 2 - I just want a game that works. I gave Paradise a chance and it didn't pay off.

The takedowns don't work, so races are a joke, and marked man and road rage end up being exercises in exploiting the delayed takedown system. Totally stupid.

Stunt run is fun. The timed challenges are fun. But you gotta be joking me if you think those two things are enough to keep me playing the game. They lack any sort of depth.

Again, I'm not looking for Revenge 2 when I play Paradise. I'm not bothered about the lack of a speedometer at all (it's not really necessary in this game), nor do I care about the lack of drift jumping (in fact, no drift jumping is a GOOD thing, considering the fact it was a glitch in the first place). All I really want is a game that works properly, and Paradise doesn't deliver.

Nowadays I put most of my Xbox time in Geometry Wars 2. It's fun, it's challenging, and best of all it works the way it's supposed to. Amazing game.

I still pop in Revenge and Paradise every couple days, though.

I don't see why we need people "supporting" Revenge with videos or articles. I play video games for FUN, and I have plenty of fun just racing my friends on Revenge. The game is old - why try to get new people interested in it? Dicking around with friends is good enough for me. And Nito's tournaments are a fun way of doing just that - dicking around with friends. We run tournaments for fun, nothing else.

It's cool and all that Criterion wanted to make Paradise "n00b"-friendly, but the least they could do is make the game work properly and iron out the bugs... which they haven't done. Laggy traffic and shitty takedowns don't make the game fun for anybody... except of course the low-rankers who manage to win a couple lucky races after the guy in front gets screwed over and over.

I'll be playing my Geometry Wars until Criterion fixes Paradise.

One last thing - I don't think most of the so-called "top" racers use glitches or use multiple tags to clog up the leaderboards. From what I've seen, only a select few do that. Not going to name names but it's certainly not "most" of us.

Thats pretty much what it is.... dicking around with other racers because in a way it is competitive but no one there really cares about who better than who... All it is, is to have fun racing with people who play the game.... And it is 18 spots, not for the top 18, but because the set up with 18 people is just perfect...

As for elitism, I dont think any of us ever thinks like that. Thats a common misconception that we think were better than other people in this game, but none of us really think that. Its other people who dont race us regularly that think that otherwise because our times are faster, and because they got kicked because were waiting for a friend or something. In truth, We do invite other racers to join in on the game... a lot..

I will say that Revenge is an old game. The tournaments arent there to keep the game alive. Its there so that people could play and enjoy the competition that is around.

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."

Fortunately Psych, I do understand what Suffer writes about. Its because.... I skim read... and pick out little things that catches my eye in the posts....

"Take the light, undarken everything around me." "Call the clouds and listen closely I'm lost without you." "Call your name every day when I feel so helpless." "I've fallen down but I'll rise above this, rise above this."